Thursday, February 18, 2010

Oh no! We're losing! Good.

Well, the war with Dark Grendal (DG) has been going a day or two now, and like everything else they've been doing, OUCH members have been throwing themselves into it with a vengeance. As of this writing, OUCH has 36 losses to DG's 1. And we're loving it! :)

DG are a dedicated PVP corp, and as such, we knew that we weren't any match for them. That's why they declared war against us, of course. That's what high-sec griefers do, look for weak targets in Empire because they're too scared to go into nullsec and fight. All they do is sit outside a highsec station and camp in a bunch of frigate flyers with their battlecruisers, and when they get jammed by any of our frigates, they dock.


So anyway, we knew that as a 'noob training corp' we couldn't defeat a bunch of more experienced and skilled PVP'ers with battlecruisers, battleships and T2 ships. So on our forums I've been discussing 'the economic war' and providing instructions on how we could potentially win based on the value of losses. We set up Wolf Packs, fleets of frigates designed to overwhelm single targets with organised tactics and planning.

It was working well to start off with. We killed 1 battlecruiser at the cost of 9 frigates, with DG losing 80 million ISK and OUCH losing 32 million. I was encouraging this to continue!

And then someone decided that they'd do well with a Muninn, a Heavy Assault Cruiser (HAC). And they lost it at the cost of 145 million. And then someone else thought a Covert Ops ship was 'just a frigate', and that cost 35 million. One Covert Ops ship was worth 9 frigates... One HAC was worth 35 frigates...

So right now we're losing the economic war, and I'm banging my head into the keyboard.


See? Told you.

But it's all good. OUCH is learning how to deal with this war, and even if we lose, we win - because we learn so much. This will help OUCH's members moving forward, understanding how war is waged in Empire space, what's important, tactics and strategies.

They throw themselves into it, and I'm very happy that they're not afraid to lose. Even in loss comes learning. That's what this is all about.
"You're going to die. A lot. But along the way you'll learn how to die less."


  1. So you failed to notice that I'm out there in a Merlin every single time and I have 11 kills, including about 94% of the damage on that Nemesis. So much for only battlecruisers and T2.... So are you going to come out and fight us?

  2. when's the next wave of frigs coming? and dont forget that astarte that can cook a cane for sho.

  3. What was it they said about sore losers...

  4. Economic war? You guys serious?

    There is no such thing as an economic war. People who PVP have it in their heads that when they undock a ship, they are not only expecting to fight, but they are expecting to loose it. You cannot hit a PVPer in the pocket, because if they couldnt afford to loose it, they wouldn't be flying it. You guys have the wrong mindset. You need to start thinking about the fun it brings, and not the iskies, or it will be the doom of your Corporation.

  5. I love you Jaqueline <3

  6. Killboard wars mean nothing... If your gonna point at your killboard and say "Hey guys look how good we are doing!" you better not be a noob training corporation.

    A muninn loss is a much bigger learning experience then 15 rifter losses, and now that pilot will never do that same mistake twice.

    Forget the killboard, forget the losses, you focus on it and your wartargets will too.

    Have fun, enjoy pvp, dont be dooshbags to each other, and learn from the experiences. Thats much more important then "economic wars".

  7. Thanks for all the tips guys :D

  8. To quickly end a war you do not want, you need to determine the enemy's motivation and remove it from them. If they are after fun and you give them boredom or unsporting situations, its safe to assume they will move on quick enough.

    However, you need to be careful that while you remove their original motivation you do not give them new motivations to continue the fight.

  9. OK, I'm going to back BC on this. Your recruits are going to learn how to take it on the chin, which is not a bad thing, but there needs to be a silver lining. They need to have some positive reinforcement, and being able to say they lost less isk than the other side is perfectly valid. So break out the frigate wolf pack and have a few wins where you cost them more isk than they cost you. You may not win the war economically, but you can sure win some battles that way.

    Re the kill board - Eve PVP is all about the kill board. Look at any PVP corp and they have a corp kill board. PVP players often have their own personal kill board. Look at the first comment above - bragging about 11 kills and 94% of damage on one of them - I bet he has the KB stats to prove it too.

    I chuckle at the comment suggesting forget the KB. Come on. Why do PVP corps that war dec training corps? To pad their KB with easy kills. OUCH, your war targets are already focussed on their KB, believe it.

    KBs track ships killed and lost and isk killed and lost. I don't know of any KB that doesn't include isk stats too. I encourage OUCH to monitor their efficiencies by isk as well as ships. Kudos to you if you can keep close to your antagonists on the isk score.

    "Have fun, enjoy pvp, dont be dooshbags to each other, and learn from the experiences." - is good advice. But also learn there is more than one way to gauge success. Count your isk too.

  10. This war has given me my very first taste of pvp, so it's all good.

    I do hope that after this training, I'm qualified to find more challenging prey than what Dark Grendal goes after.